hangforum.com - The Archive

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E-6zq1pG1fY

I like it! I think the "hang not" family has a good ring to it also.

If we are going to try and reach the lowest common denominator (ie the general public), then we should be calling these instruments bongos

I would agree that handpan is not (yet) part of the collective unconscious. When the Hang was the only such instrument, it was easy to just refer to it as a Hang (after the drum addition has somewhat been eliminated, but perhaps not entirely. Even with just the word Hang, people felt a need to attach it to some more familiar and generally descriptive noun.)

Now that the Hang has inspired similar instruments, regardless of how one views the quality of various manufacturers, there seems to be a need for the group who discusses these instruments to have a convenient way to refer to this class or group of instruments. We can certainly discuss the strengths of one type/brand/variation or another, but there are many similarities between the Hang, Halo, and Bell that it makes quite a bit of sense to refer to them all together (at least for many of us). This doesn't mean that they are equal, but that they share certain common, fundamental characteristics.

I would say that there is no attempt to “dictate” a specific term here. In fact, the opposite is true of language, in that it evolves in a very democratic way. If a significant proportion of the population understands a term and begins to use it, it becomes part of the language. In the end, the source is rather insignificant in the process. Words leave a language in the same manner, though they remain a part of the history of the language for a significant amount of time.

I am certain that there will be SOME kind of term to include this group of instruments. Of course there is some consideration for the input of those who make these instruments, and we as a community may have significant impact on whatever term is eventually used, but in the end the process is much broader and not controlled by any individual or small group, but rather by the collective consciousness of the people who find it important to discuss this type of instrument. I would also say that discussion of the limitations of any particular term will have less of an impact than suggesting a better alternative, with the community eventually adopting what it considers the “best” term for use. Handpan is the current frontrunner, and is likely to become the accepted term, for lack of a better alternative.

IX earlier asked what handpan means, and I would say (this is just a first attempt and should be considered a working draft, rather than final or complete): 1) a convex melodic steel percussion instrument, played directly with the hands, made up of joined upper and lower elliptical sections, with the upper section having a central tone field surrounded by ( typically) 7-8 notes arranged in a circular pattern around the central note, and the lower section having a central hole. Each note is tuned with two harmonics above, typically (but not always) the 8th and 12th intervals of the fundamental note. The original instrument of this class was the PANArt Hang, developed in 2001. In 2009, Pantheon Steel began to produce the Halo, and Bellart is in late design stages of its Bell, with delivery expected in the later part of 2009. [nitrided steel and Helmholtz resonance probably deserve mention in there as well]

To me, the Caisa does not fit the above definition, but the definition could possibly be expanded to include it. Up to this point, I think the Hang community has seen enough differences between the Hang and Caisa that it did not need to come up with a noun for the class of instruments in the time since the Caisa was introduced, but that there is a stronger need with the addition of the Halo and Bell.

So, if Felix says that the Hang is not a HandPan, and that is the final word for the Hang, then I think it logically follows that the makers of other instruments have their own right to use whatever word they see fit to categorize their instrument, if they so choose. PanArt only tells us that the Hang is a Hang. That is not a good definition. And if we (some) are so hellbent (I mean fixed or rigid) on making sure that whatever PanArt says about the Hang is absolute fact, then will Ix or Funky please ask PanArt what words they would use to categorize the Hang other than simply "Hang"??

Since PanArt is not the Supreme Ruler of all the instruments in discussion, but since they ARE the supreme rulers over all things related to the Hang, then it makes sense that each instrument maker has their own right to categorize their own instruments. Kyle Cox says his Halo IS in fact a HandPan. And as far as I am concerned, that is final until he chooses to categorize it in another way. If Luis chooses to say that his Bells belong to the Donkey family, then I will look forward to play my ass off when I receive mine, and will gladly call his Bell a Donkey if he so chooses. Of course it doesn't make much sense to put it in such a ridiculous category, but the point is that PanArt's supreme rule DOES NOT extend IMO beyond anything but the Hang. This entire debate came out of PanArt's statement that the Hang is not a HandPan, and that's great for the Hang. But they have no authority whatsoever in influencing the name of other people's instruments, as it seems to be indicated by the gist of this thread.................IMO

Then I guess we should consider it somewhat of a blessing that we have this forum to dictate and clarify for all of us, what a Hang, Handpan, Not-Hang, Nadahang, bell, tongue drum or other percussive metal instrument/sound sculpture really is, and how they compare to each other.

Just kidding of course.

Re: Felix saying that the Hang is not a Handpan...

With all due respect, he's going to lose that battle, unless we (collectively) come up with another alternative quick! :

This is, again, just an observation from someone who has spent some time studying how language evolves... NOT a manifesto, or dictate!

Something to also think about... I myself would rather see a suitable generic term like handpan used for the family, rather than all descendants being called "Hang"...

and history shows that "Hang" becoming generic is a major risk.

In the American south, "Coke" is a term for ANY carbonated sugar drink (yuck!). Aspirin. Xerox. All were tradenames that became generics. Google has fought very hard to try to prevent that from happening (they were alarmed that their trademark was becoming a verb, as in, "can you google it?" When something becomes a verb that's apparently one of the triggers for the trademark status being stripped...)

I think we would ALL agree that it'd be better for various reasons to keep Hang for PANArt's unique creation, and some other word for the family... wouldn't we?

(I am entertained by the list produced but other than affection for my own "tactophone" see no strong competitors for handpan, yet...)

aaron

After a weekend with really wholehearted discussions and practice (means Hang playing) about, what a Hang is, I feel a bit sadly about the last posts speaking of "battle" and "supreme ruler".

This topic isn't a battle fight or the attempt to dictate a supreme rule. It is an open consideration.

And there are two main arguments:

1) Calling the discussued instruments "handpans" is ignorant to the Trinidadian culture of steelpan and therefor not a good choice.

2) There are important differences between a Hang (and the other Instruments too???) and a pan (steelpan). To name both pans is therefor not a good choice.

Why don't we discuss the arguments instead of the silly suspicions this topic (perhaps on behalf of PANArt) wanted to dictate something or fight a battle?

Ix

The HARPS family of instruments.... Hand Activated Resonant Percussive Steel

Also, to deny these instruments their own pan lineage or ancestors is to deny acknowledgement to their connection to the pan. Is this the purpose of this exercise? To make a clean break of the Hang and related instruments from the Steel Pan completely?

Forgive me if this sounds, as you say, like a "silly suspicion". But to me, and apparently others within this community, the use of the word "pan" is not meant as an affront to, or meant to be disrespectful in any way.

Does the current configuration of the Hang and it's cousins stray from the traditional definition of a pan? Of course it does. Do the Hang and it's cousins have a rooted family connection to the steel pan? Undeniably so. Has anyone, other than Felix apparently, in a position to make such a request, perhaps from any civic or government organization from Tobago Trinidad, to not have the word pan included within the description of these new instruments? Not to my knowledge.

So, silly suspicions aside..... these are legitimate questions.

This topic started with a question... "What is a Handpan?" And it has spiraled into an exercise to "officially" name this classification instruments.

Everything, aside from Felix requesting that the Hang not be classified as a Handpan, is merely speculation on all of our parts. And perhaps, as there are more than a few that hold the same opinion, the community's opinions won't be passed off as "silly suspicions". For a community to thrive, ALL opinions must be considered, not just those that are appealing to the mods.

Certainly can't call it that. That would offend the Celts, the REnnaissance folks, and all other harp lineages in Egypt, Persia, west africa, and the middle east as well, who invented the harp and improved upon its design. And it might also offend the US government and their patented HAARP technology in Alaska.

Hi,

i dont see any posting from a MOD in this thread. Why you make this connection? I dont understand what you want to say.

Greetings
Frank

I very much agree with the ideas expressed by Danny above. I tried to say something similar earlier, but perhaps he put it better.

I have also been thinking . . . if using the word "pan" is disrespectful to a culture, wasn't the *act* of taking the steelpan form and using it in a new way even more disrespectful of the culture? I certainly don't think so, but this would seem a logical step from those who see incorporating the term "pan" into a new name as disrespectful.

Many things grow and develop--this is certainly the way of art, life, language, and creativity. Continuing development doesn't seem to be disrespectful or rejecting the previous thing, but rather the human search for something different, and in some cases better. But there are many examples where the older thing is regarded as "better" in one or more ways, and many others where the new thing is considered better. But a thoughtful person can value both.

I also went to look at the link included with Frank's first posting. I had to translate this first sentence with Google, but here's what it said: "The Pan is still in development and therefore not yet ripe for standardization." The following sentence was originally in English: "It is impossible to standardize anything until we agree on what it is we wish to standardize". To me, this indicates that even the steelpan had not been standardized, so it makes little sense to say that we are somehow changing the standard, when that standard was (is?) under development.

Just to be clear, I don't think any of us were arguing that the Hang (or Halo) are steelpans. But their ancestors were.

Regarding the use of a compound word, I offer the following to clarify our support for "handpan": "In other words, compound, compounding or word-compounding occurs when a person attaches two or more words together to make them one word. The meanings of the words interrelate in such a way that a new meaning comes out which is very different from the meanings of the words in isolation." (full text at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_%28linguistics%29)

It is the interrelation of the words "hand" and "pan" that forms a new meaning.

The last comment I make is that page 3 of the 2008 Hang Booklet (http://www.hangblog.org/panart/Booklet_ ... h_GzD1.pdf) contains a photo that puts the hang in the context of its musical lineage, with a strong connection to the steelpan/steeldrum. Yes, there are some other instruments in the picture, but having tone fields in a curved form (whether it be concave or convex) are very strong similarities between the hang and steelpan.

Hi,

I said, that it is disrespectfull from another culture area to bring a new "member" to Trinadads objects of cultural value (Pan) if they say that Hang, Halo, Bell and so on are also Pan.

I see a difference between the culture from people in a country and the "worth" of their objects of cultural value and the US government military patents.

Frank

Hi,

the Hang is a new instrument. Before Panart make the Hang they made steelpan and other instruments. This means not, that Panart take the steelpan form and used it in a new way. I see no steelpan form, if I look at my Hang. I hear not much from a steelpan sound if I listen to my Hang. I dont use sticks if i play on my Hang.
We have a new instrument. The "roots" from Panart are in making steelpan. This is a connection. But with the Hang they made a new instrument. This instrument is an european (Swiss) instrument and not an instrument from Trinidad.

Frank

In all of these statements you say "I". As in "your" opinion. And I respect them as such. If F & S choose not to use the classification "Handpan", then that is their choice. After that, it seems to be opinion only.

Hi,

of course it is only opinion. What else? We are only a small community with individual persons who all have a opinion. Or has here anybody the absolut trueness? In my opinion not, but this is only my opinion.


@Danny. I asked you before another question. I dont understand you comment about Mods.

Greetings
Frank

Perhaps it is myself (and others?) confusing the many hats you and Ix wear here. Sometimes, as was told to me at hang-music.com , that perhaps my own opinions were viewed as Admin or Mod opinions.

Here I guess since you wear a Funky hat, as well as a funkymod hat, it becomes a bit hard to relate as to what is a mods opinion, as opposed to a regular community member's opinion.

I have been on both sides of that coin and understand the dichotomy presented.

So to offer opinion as Funky, as opposed to funkymod, it's hard for me to distinguish, other than in name. To me, as has been told to me before, creates a bit of conflict of interests..... even with the multiple titles that you may carry.

Then again, this is just my (?) opinion.

While there are many, many differences between Hang and steelpan, one of the things most often said when I show people my Hang or play to them is 'it is a little like a steelpan', so maybe this experience is not the same for everyone?