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I'm wondering if someone who is (or could be) in communication with Felix could present our dilemma to him without bias, so we stop trying to guess what's on his mind.

I believe Ix stated that Felix says emphatically "The Hang is NOT a Handpan.".

The issue is broader than the word "handpan." Felix and Sabina created a new category of instruments that will inevitably grow -- what does he want this category to be called? If he doesn't want to weigh in than others will decide and "people will vote with their feet."

If I consider what you (aaron) wrote in your last post and notice that the first writing of the discussed term was "hand pan", I think it is obvious that the original definition of those who brought up the term was "Pan that is played with the hands".

Besides that in common speech speakers who are not deeper involved in what Halo, Hang etc. are don't have the "pan" much in mind, it remains that everyone who use it as techical term associates the original definition.

I think that those who create and defines technical terms can (not completely but rather strong) control the general use, because they are the ones who publish professional and informative media. Therefor the discussion on a technical term is also very important for the common use. In the best case common use and technical terms don't contradict.

So if the disscussion on technial terms ends with the advice not to call these instruments handpans we will get a contradiction between technical and common language. We can avoid this if we discuss the term carefully before we begin to spread it widely for the common use.

Ix

This is an important thought. "Handpan" is looking at the past but we need a term looking forward. But the other question is: Do the new Hang inspired instruments belong to that new categoration? We have only begun to discuss this!

Ix

I don't believe we'll have much control over that -- anymore than a cheap plywood guitar from KMart is in the same category of instruments as a Martin.

Felix wrote this in a personal message to me and Funky end of May 2009: "Das Hang ist kein Handpan."

He also stated recently that the Hang is not a steelpan: "Hang ist kein Steel Pan."

It's clear that PANArt looks at the Hang as something different and new. Its history is the steelpan but its present and future not (these are my words not PANArt's!).

Ix

That's helpful Ix. We know what it isn't. All this would work if there were only HangHang created by Felix and Sabina in the world, but that's not the case today and there will be other hang-derived instruments in the future. What should they be called?

People judge whether or not an object is a guitar or harmonica based on very limited criteria - mostly appearance. What is the category that will include the Hang and its tributaries?

Hi,

@Danny.

Again. I think it makes no sense to speculate about Felix feelings and what is fact on this story and what not. I dont like it to speak about feelings from persons who are not in the room. Much more, if I only have a "story" from hearsaying.

But I can tell Fellix next week personally what you think and ask him if he want to say something about this. At the moment I dont see what this has to do with all the questions we ask in this topic. It is in my view not "friendly" to make such discussion without having the whole background and the person about we speak is not here.

If I had next week not the swine flu and the world is like today, I visit Felix and Sabina together with Ixkeys. I tell them, what the discussion is in the forum about their personal feelings. Maybe they want to say something about that. Maybe not. I dont know.

But please stop to speak about feelings from persons who are not participator of the discussion. This brings nothing.

Greetings
Frank

@the "Hang" community -

My sincerest apologies if I pursued speculation beyond the "facts" on this subject. My sincerest apologies if I have offended anyone with my theories or conjecture, as it is perceived. Any thoughts I had on this subject were not based on anything shared, written or conversated by any member of this or any other forum.

Have I spoken to someone within the "extended" community? Perhaps. Do I care to share my conversation? Probably not. And no, it is not anyone I've mentioned having a relationship or rapport with in any of my posts either here or elsewhere within the past 2-3 years.

Will I accept responsibility for airing my thoughts? Absolutely. Perhaps even affix my own "Pariah" label to myself, as it may seem.

Frank, if you do go next week, and you do ask Felix's thoughts on this, I would imagine you will get a clear and constructive response. Though I don't think it will allude to any of my own thoughts. But perhaps that is just me speculating again.

I agree with you. Raising the issue with Felix of his alleged past dealings with the Trinidadians and Tobaganians is irrelevant and potentially hurtfull.

We should work to bring this community together rather than create further opposition and alliances. Out of great respect to Felix, I would want him to have the opportunity to name this emerging class of instruments, so that we can support his choice on our forums and beyond.

If everyone is nitriding their sheet steel I propose "hang pang" (hand pang)? You could really get down to some serious "hangy pangy" on any member of that family.

-- How an elephant got into your pajamas, I'll never know! (Groucho Marx)

Like most of you, I think it is no longer very constructive to talk about language theory...

If I am going to spend time writing, and not playing, I would like to be constructive.

So I thought on my bus ride to work about this possible nomenclature. I summarize it below.

I am sorry I do not have the time right now to draw a diagram, which would make it clearer.

I welcome correction, suggestion, and debate about the following. This is an idea, not a statement...

Perhaps this is a fruitful new direction?


A new subclass of idiophones is proposed: hangomorphic idiophones.

For "hangomorphic idiophone" we may say "hangomorphs" as an informal abbreviation.

Hangomorphic idiophones are defined as idiophones that have the form of the PANArt Hang.

This form is the Hang-form. The Hang-form is described as: a precisely tuned Hemholtz resonator body made of hardened steel, with soundfields tuned with odd-order harmonics.

The Hang-form is not an aesthetic characteristic of the hangomorph. It is the necessary defining characteristic, not only of look, but of shape, construction, and materials.

The Hang is the only "Hang."

Today, a hangomorph is not a "Hang" ... unless it is a PANArt Hang. (Who knows what might happen someday... ).

Every Hang of all generations (back to the Mother Hang) is a hangomorph.

The Halo and Bell are also hangopmorphic idiophones. They have the same form as the Hang, not only of aesthetics, but of principal of operation and materials.

To say that something is a hangomorph is NOT to say that it has the same SOUND as a Hang.

There may someday be "hangophonic hangomorphs" but that is not certain. The prototype Bell may be a good first step in that direction, but today the only hangophonic hangomorph is the Hang.

The Caisa is NOT a hangomorph, because it does (in its current form) share all of the defining characteristics of the form.

A steel tongue-drum is a related subclass of idiophone, but it is NOT a hangomorph and it is not very closely related. Playing techniques may be shared between steel tongue-drums and hangomorphs, however.


"Handpan" is not part of this nomenclature. Today, it is an emergent (possibly temporary) word used by some people to refer to both hangomorphs, and related instruments that are not hangomorphs, such as the Caisa (and possibly even steel tongue-drums).


Useful? Right direction?

aaron

i think this is brilliant.... i think however, like in many other academic fields (scientific experts using latin terms for example) this terminology will not be adopted by the masses. though i think it is as close to a future dictionary entry as could be imagined.

i have a feeling ix will be most pleased with your classifications

Good overall categorization that I'd slightly modify:

A tuned Helmholtz Resonator body made of two hemispheres of Nitrided Steel with harmonic overtone tuned soundfields containing centered bosses in/on the surface as well as a tuned port/neck of the resonator.

The proposal of Hangomorph as a name for the category is interesting, it may address the conflict stated in some of PANArts statements that the Hang is not a HandPan (or Hand Pan). It is also not a direct co-opting of the Hang name, but an integration of it into a class.

I think I like it.

"Hangomorph" also suggests evolution beyond the Hang as well.



(exit, stage left............)

Makes sense to me (although "the street" may eventually shorten "hangomorph" to "hang"). I wonder if this nomenclature might be acceptable to Felix and Sabina?

I considered the "two hemispheres" part, but didn't want to narrow the description immediately to presume the means of fabrication.

The bosses (dimples) seem to be intrinsic to the tuning, however, so perhaps something about those should be included...

Hi,




I see, that a lot of members think about the sense from the '"Handpan"
I have the feeling, that we find more and more a consensus that this "generic term" must be discussed.

"Hangomorph" is maybe a first good beginning. But, it is also only oriented on the shape. So, we must think about all the aspects more carefully.

I am tired now. Tomorrow I play Hang in a forest. There are a few artist, who want to find out how a Hang sound in the forest and what they can feel from the sound. I am very curious what this day does for me and the other people.

Good night. (Here in germany it is late. One a clock in the morning)

Frank