hangforum.com - The Archive

Hi,

yes, this is the point.

Felix and Sabina searched all the years for the Panart sound. Their sound. They make experiments with different material and shape. All what we see is the result of searching a sound. The Hang form is the result. Only with this shape the sound Felix and Sabina want is possible. They understand these sculpture better and better.
Felix and Sabina build the Hang from the beginning. They ask scientist, artist, universitys and a lot of people to help them to understand the Hang.

I am sure, that this sculpture will have a lot of more suprises for Kyle in the future.
Kyle copy the shape with a lot of aspects in the tone field geometrie and so on. He dont understand exact what he do. The Halo looks very similar as a Hang.
But this is not the result from a man who is searching "his" sound.
So he want to give the Halo his "soul". But maybe it is the wrong shape for the realy and thruthfully "Kyle sound"?

I hope you have something to think about. These are some aspects I also see in my Hang.

Greetings
Frank

Then, in your opinion, for Kyle to truly create his "soul sound", would he have to create a completely new form? I think we have to consider what really is being created by Kyle, Luis.... or others. Do we insist from this point on, that those that are trying to create something akin to the Hang, not do so? Is this something that we should leave for only Felix and Sabina to create? Do the "others" need to create toaster or football shapes, like Blackbells presented in the past? Will every instrument that comes after, be required to follow the exact path as Felix and Sabina? I am not sure really what is in question about Pantheon? Their ethics? Their approach to creating the HALO? Can their journey not be inspired by the Hang?

When Kyle "copied" the shape and tone field geometry, I am sure he used that as a starting point for his own research. As I am sure, the HALO's shape and geometry may change as time and experience go by as well. I am sure Kyle's "sound" will develop, now that the base has been created.

So this leaves a question for me...... How is Kyle supposed to present the HALO to the public? How is he supposed to approach how he makes the HALO? There are obvious similarities, and inspiration is obviously derived from the Hang. But we are not allowed to make that comparison, without fear of offending those that have created the Hang, or those that are loyal to the Hang as well. There is no denying that the HALO would not be born, if not for the Hang. But it seems that whether it is said that the HALO is inspired by the Hang, or if it is it's own instrument, Pantheon is still condemned.

Did Luis also talk to many scientists, artists and universities as well? And who is to assume that Kyle has not had a similar experience as well? Believe me, from what I know about the creation of the HALO, it was most assuredly not ONE man's quest. I would think that to be quite egotistical. (this adjective I have heard applied more than once to the Hang makers).

Perhaps a little bit of food for thought on the deposit issue. Since my last post I was thinking about this as well. Many, including the creators, consider the Hang to be a sculpture, a piece of art. Many may consider this of the HALO as well.... especially as time goes by. So, with that said, is it not standard practice by many artists to be paid and commissioned to create their work? Would this be any different? An artist, be it a sculptor, or painter, can't predict, exactly, what the final piece may look like. A general look, or sketch, or rendering can be offered. But the client has to place faith in the artist to create the final work of art.

Maybe it is a bit different in Pantheon's case, as we are just now witnessing the first pieces of art to be produced by this artist. But with the initial pieces out, I am confident in their work.... as I am assuming others will be as well.

My problem with a lot of the negativity that I hear here about the early Halo is that we are talking about a first generation Halo, and we should be comparing them to first generation Hang.

I have had the privilege of hearing and playing quite a few Hang, from the two "first" generations, and 2nd, and the Integral. I can qualitatively say that the Halo I received is in many ways superior in sound quality to a number of the first generation Hangs that I've played. Yes, they don't compare to the richness of the "Stradivarius" of the Integral Hang, but I wouldn't be surprised if Pantheon keeps up the work that they will maybe be able to come close.

-- Christopher Allen

Is it standard practise? I don't know. A friend of mine makes stone sculptures, grave stones and stuff like that. She goes to buy the marbel or granite, she works it, she exposes it, she eventually sells it. In case she gets an order, she is not asking for a deposit. Paying deposits for the manufacturer to be able to go and buy his materials is not the stardard procedure around here...



I can not agree with you that Kyle copied the "tone field geometry". Have a look at both Hang and Halo, you will see obvious differences right away. Round note domes? Round circle notes, as well as elliptical circle notes? That is not the architecture PANArt is using.



I'm thinking: A indian company "Tata Motors" started to produce cars some years ago. The first indian car models. Do we compare them with the T-Model of Henry Ford? No, we don't.

But if the first batch of Halos should be compared with the early Hang, my conclusion is that they are by far too expensive. PANArt sold their early models for as less as 300 Euro...

Werner

Hi,

i have not much time at the moment. So i will answer on Dannys posting soon.

Interesting thought. Remember, that the first Hanghang had a price from only a few hundret Euro. This was adequate.
Panart research a lot of and make the Hang better. They payed for this studys and to make the Hang better needs time.
After they had a better version they ask for more money, for a "better" Hang.

Kyle is at the beginning as you said. Why he can ask for 1500 USD for this instrument? Can anybody tell me the reason? A lot of people say now: "yes, it is only the first generation and we are sure, that the Halo make a evulution in the future..."
But the price is from the beginning only so expensive, because he know that a lot of people pay this price, because of the Hang popularity.
On Ebay people ask for prices similar to the first generation Hang for only "crap". Sorry, but you all know what i mean. I dont speak from Hank Drums (this is a different thing). But this is also the result from the popularity of the Hang and the dream to play it.

If you want to compare the Halo with the first generation Hang you should also compare the price. Or not?

It is funny, I just want to post this and after pushing the post button the forum tell me, that Werner post in the meantime something and if I want to change something in my posting before I send it. Werner has the same question with the price of the Halo. Two people with the same thoughts at the same moment.

Greetings
Frank

Hi,

only a short answer, because i must do a lot of things. I will answer on other aspects of your posting soon.

A good starting point to make a similar instrument as a Hang is in my opinion PANArt. If anybody want to copy a Hang or make a similar instrument it is helpfull for him to speak with Felix and Sabina before he do this.
I am sure, he can learn a lot of about making this instrument. And I am sure, he can learn a lot of about PANArt and the Hang.
Maybe he has after this a much better starting point to make an instrument.

Kyle copied a few aspects of the Hang without to understand the function of these aspects. He dont know why he do this or that. But a lot of puzzle pieces work only if you have all pieces and not only a few. And here is it needfull to understand "why" here is a dent and there is a dome and so on. Only to copy this and try to understand it later is not easy.
So it is a big difference to start from the beginning or copy something as a starting point.

The problem with the first Halo is the result of these "backward engineering".

Later more.

Greetings
Frank

To compare something with something else, you need both: The something and the something else.

So here is my suggestion:
If Pantheon will send a Halo to me for a timeframe of two weeks, I will make a real comparison between Halo and 1st generation Hang and publish it at the Hangforum.



Ixkeys

Good idea, hope it works

So easiest way to find out: ask Kyle

But I think he is not in a good mood these days...

btw: is noone else interested in a voting regarding the scales??? Can´t believe that!

@Epi....

Kyle is not in a good mood? This is news to me. As far as I know.... he is happiest behind the hammer. And that is where he is spending most of his time right now.

@Ix..... Interesting proposition. I cannot answer whether Kyle would be willing to do this or not. Would you be comparing the HALO to all generations of Hanghang? I am sure you would be a "sound" critic.

About pricing.... consider that the Hang was introduced almost a decade ago. Granted, inflation would only account for a fraction of that amount, but I would imagine if Kyle were to sell his HALO for 3,4 or even 500 dollars US, he might be A) inundated with Many, many more orders than even he has now, and B) Would perhaps be considered to be undercutting the current market, to gain a greater market share. This is of course just me playing the devil's advocate.

I believe that Kyle is in a position where he is "damned if he does, and damned if he does not." In other words, considering the HALO has not been widely heard yet, Kyle will not be able to to do right by many in the community, until he has proven himself.... and the HALO has as well. This is of course, just the natural order of things. In time.... it will be just about the music..... After all "Music = Life"......yes? Not, "A perfect sound sculpture = Life".

I'm not interested in a voting regarding Halo scales. Firstly because I'm not on Pantheons list. But as a Hang player I have another reason: I don't think in this direction. It is not me, who whish a special scale tuned in a Hang but it is the Hang with it's scale (and other properties!) that tells me, the Hang player, how it wants to be played. So I think it is impossible to decide for a special scale theoretical. You can only decide for a concrete Hang that layed on your lap. - But perhaps this is a main difference between Hang and Halo?

Ix