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Hi Titouan94

I'm agree with you about the fact of "Panart have the right to choose their customers". But at the same time if I get a refusal letter I want to know if the refusal would be forever? for about other two years waiting? as Samjjana says "did we now send another letter?" In my life I always try to let the people know why maybe I said NO to some aspects of my work, life style, discussions, etc. Panart could also sent something like... "this refusal letter doesn't mean that you will never apply again to own a hang" or maybe "yes if we says NO to you that NO is permanent"... you understand my point of view now?

You mentioned some interesting points of view... Panart will do bad decisions and injustice selecting the people using a system that YOU, and I didn't know how it works. So selecting people will not resolve the issue with hard hang players, that panart selection system will non stop the line of street musicians going to the hanghaus asking a re-tune service every 3 months... and finally because the selection system will not fix all of this problems that you mentioned it is time to be CLEAR with the people that want a hang... for example "Panart decide to built just 600 hangs per year... we would take 600 letters from our letters box between 2009 and early 2010 without any order and you can cross your fingers and feel happy if your letter is in that pack"... See? why they don't want to be clear with the people that really love and want to own a hang? be clear guys from Panart... if you have about 2.000.000 to read let us know, let community know which is the hang demand situation... Why all this mistery regarding how Panart decide who must have a hang and who not? go to youtube and look how many persons like Manu Delago etc. have about two or three hangs!!! Dante Bucci have 2 hangs, Ravid Goldsmith have 3 hangs... so all of those Panart rules like a "there's just one hang per person" is not true. I can now call and choose 10 friends asking their favor to wrote a letter to PANART asking for a hang... how PANART knows that I'm don't do it that kind of tricky method to have more possibilities in order to get a hang?

My frustration comes because I really love the sound and feeling of this instrument like you, Funky, Iskeyz etc. but how can I demonstrate to Panart that I'm a serious person who will take care a hang? I hope Felix would read this I'm not afraid if the hang makers decide that I'm not a suitable person after this discussion, but somebody must formulate this unanswered questions right?

I want to approach this topic to says that there's some people saying some funny rumors regarding the hang hang one of those rumors is "Do not contradict the PANART procedures or the hang blog moderators will notify Felix and Sabina and you will not get a chance to won a hang" that makes me laugh.. too much rumors and too much points of view just because PANART don't want to be clear how the selection process works.

At this point I just want to know if there's any chance to get a hang in the next couple of years or not.

That's all.

Cheers!

Massimiliano

Hi Massimiliano,

I understand your point of view.

PANArt will make probably errors, but what counts is that they will make their possible so that it doesn't arrive.

My approximate English makes me say things which are little different from what I think. Excuse me, I am going to double attention.

Titouan

Hi Massimiliano.....juste this answer....

let the life continue his way and don't wait.....live !!!!

When i wrote my letter, four years ago....i put in the letterbox and forgot......i have really the surprise to have the possibility to buy an IH....thanks Felix and Sabina but if i have nor received any answer....that's life.

I hope for many things in my life but ihave chosse to let the life choose for me ( i know, it's little complex to explain, sorry )....
finally don'y waist your time to wait but find owner hang people and try to play with them.

For the fact of people to have few Hanghang.....it's was 1rst and 2 scnd gen Hangs when its was more easier to buy.....not IH with contract with Panart....
Don't forget, its was a time when Hangs are sale in store with no restrictions of numbers to buy.....just the money.

Live happy Massimiliano

Hi Massimiliano,
whether your "No letter" is meant forever can only be estimated by yourself. You know your interests and you know the targets of the Hang makers. If these are contradicting, the No letter will likely be forever.

Nobody can tell you more. You have a brain. You can think. You can care for yourself. You can make your own decisions.

Ix

Hello Ixkeys

Well I'm waiting the miracle for about 2 years! after that time I got the refusal letter!, and for me the letter means that I'll be maybe wait other two of years (more or less) to get the invitation to the hanghaus maybe in 2012... but who knows right? I'll maybe be waiting for nothing? so this discussion was a good experience to understand that for me there's NO list of persons in PANART, they maybe don't follow any order regarding the letters date, and NO clearly way to select people so this is a LOTTERY game, I send my two lottery coupons (2 letters) to PANART during these 2 years and the only thing that I can do is just stay calm and pride and have hope that I would maybe get a hang just because my interpretation of the refusal letter was do it wit a positive perspective...

I'm afraid and my panic comes just because there's too much rumors and comments on the hang and other handpan communities about Panart would just sell hangs to recommended people? friends from their friends? etc.

Finally Ixkeys the contradictions comes from PANART not me, I'm just asking that PANART be clear about the selection process, who must have and who not the right to own a hang... that's all. They uses this kind of treatment with the possible customers just because their work is great and maybe just BELLART is the only option after PANART (PANART can do whatever they want with people like me that keep warm the hope to get a hang someday just because there's no competion out there!, this is a kind of MONOPOLY), so is the same concept from the lottery game, you can work hard en hard everyday and maybe never be rich but... who knows? you will maybe be rich if you bought the lottery coupons right? you will maybe win the first prize some day and if this is the way that PANART wants to follow please STOP you and the all hang community selling the idea about Panart would read carefully any letter and bring you the opportunity to get a hang someday and bla bla bla.

So is that my vision NOW not because I'm a bad man trying to FLAME PANART, No Ixkeys this is my vision now just because there's no intention from PANART to clarify the real selection process on your website or in any other hang community. People like me or for example SAMJJANA have different visions about the hang, but the questions are the same, and still be there:



I would be here waiting Ixkeys... I'll maybe be rich someday .

[/quote]

Hallo,

i will try to explain my thoughts about some of your questions @massimiliano.
Remember, that I only could speak for myself and that my englisch is limited. I am sitting with a good coffee in front of my computer, sun is shining and I feel fine. No bad or angry feelings.



I also think that there is no list in chronological order. Such a list dont make any sense. Let´s imagine such a list. What would be the consequences?
Any person who wrote today a letter must got an answer like that from Panart:
"Thank you for your interest to buy a Hang. We have a big demand and you are number (many thousand) on the list. If we still build in the year 2028 (for example!) the Hang we will send you another mail to make an appointment a few weeks before this date....... "

Could this be a fair dealing? NO, it would be not honestly from Panart. Felix and Sabina dont know, what they will do in a few years. The Hang was ever in a kind of evolution. Maybe they will do something totally different in a few years?
To make Hanghang is an craftwork. I could not imagine an Artist who make a contract for years in the future.

All what Panart could do is to read the letters carefully. If they have the feeling that there is a "resonance" between them (the Hangmakers) and the person who wrote the letter it is likely that these person has a bigger chance to buy a Hang some day.
And yes, this is also a question of "luck". If you want to call it a "lottery" it is maybe a little bit truth in this analogy.
Let´s imagine, that Panart do all the letters where they have a good feeling on the table at the day they want to invite peoples for the next year.
They know that the only could make a specific number of Hanghang in this year.
I dont know the process how Panart search the people who got an appointment, but it is only logigal that a lot of people who are also in the bulk of letters on the table will be the unlucky who dont will get an appointment.

This is only a arithmetic problem and has nothing to do with "worthy or unworthy" !

Yes, Panart cant know how fair and honestly the person behind the letter is. But with this procedure is the chance much bigger to give the Hang in "good" hands as with only a "lottery".
The most people are at least honestly and I think that Felix and Sabina have a good knowledge of human nature.

@Massimiliano. Do you have a suggestion how Panart could deal with the situation? A fair mode, where all interests could be pleased?
Also the interest from Panart to find people in "resonance" with the idea behind the Hang?

All my ideas to deal with the situation are not satisfying.

A system where all people have the same chance is a lottery. But this dont consider the interest from Panart.
Another way could be to sell the Hang to people who offer the most money.
Again. We could be very happy, that the people behind Panart dont think only like businesspeople. With money it would be easy to find the balance between demand and supply.
This is also not what Panart want. I think they do there best to find good places for their work.

It was a time where it was easy to buy a Hang. Some people bought more than one. This time is over.
If you want a Hang you could only write a letter. You cant make further plans about your life as an Hangplayer. Maybe some day you got an appointment or maybe not.
And yes, I am very happy not to be in this situation. I understand the frustration from some people and I know that the situation is not so easy for Panart. There are only two people who must concentrate on their work and must be careful with their energy. It is not possible for them to explain any individual person all decisions they make.
If they want to do, they could not make Hanghang anymore. And this is also not the work from a clerk.

Greetings
Frank

Hey man... thanks for your answer, believe me I really appreciate it.

Next step? just wait and see if my lottery coupon get the first prize someday in this life :-(.

By the way... regarding this:


My answer is: YES I have about two or three different plans to suggest to PANART in order to satisfy the demand with a good communication with costumers... but seems like the customers advice to the hangmakers are not important, so I will not spent my time showing to Panart a better way to keep on track the future customers with loyalty and respect. Just an example, Pantheon steel have a METHOD, maybe you like it or not but the RULES in order to get a HALO are CLEAR... Same thing occur with the BELLS from BELLART... If you want a BELL you will able also to talk with LUIS using the email. So don't tell me that there's no options to improve and satisfy the customers... why PANART fight other people that are trying to do a copy of the hang? why they don't create or recruit persons like LUIS or KYLE to show the hang capabilities and work to satisfy the demand? AGAIN, there's so many ways to resolve the problem but they don't want to do it or get any suggestion from anybody... and that's the reason Frank about WHY people think that the PANART hangmakers are elitist or just work for money. They created something AMAZING, but nobody can't know how it's made...

Cheers!

Massimiliano

Frank, I want to add just one thought: If someone got a refusal letter this means: "We cannot sell you a Hang this year." And then the request is NOT stored for later even if hang makers think: "If we had the possibility to build more Hanghang this year, we would sell him one." So the sender of the Hang request has to consider whether it makes sense to send another request later or not. And there is nobody who can advice him whether, when and how.

Ix

raffle tickets... everyone who writes a letter gets a raffle ticket, when your number comes up you get the chance to buy a Hang? just an idea of course, and obviously one that PANart will not be trialling anytime soon.

We'll never all agree on the methods employed by PANart on their Hang selection, but as has been said already it's their choice, their decision, they have their ways to select and we unfortunately have to accept that.

Much in the way you may fall in love with a beautiful man or woman, the feeling may not be mutual based on the initial meetings.. maybe a few more meetings will make them fall in love with you, maybe it makes no difference on the number of times they're not interested and no amount of stalking them will change their mind.... maybe this is the same with writing a letter to PANart? who knows, who will ever know... we can speculate until the cows come home and it'll get us no-where.

No single person on this or any other forum can answer the questions that arise, that's down to PANart themselves, and occassionally they do release statements via the Hang Blog informing people of their decisions and why.... they did say that the new Hang owners would not be percussion people, so maybe here in lies the clue of what to write in a letter... study their words and figure out what you should write.

My dad always told me, if at first you don't succeed, try and try again... in the case with PANart you may well try and try again with no response at all? did your letter even reach them, I would say that if you have sent 2 or 3 letters then at least one of them would have reached the Hanghaus.

I'm afraid no one on here can answer the question of should you write again, how long should you wait, are you still in the running to get a Hang, IX is right, only you can decide that. How much do you want a Hang, are you willing to wait 15 years before you get one, with or without a response from the HangHaus? because if they follow the rules that everyone wants them too, then as Frank said you could be waiting a long time anyway... by which time they may decide at any point to give up making Hang... what if you were number 25,900 on the list and they decide at 25,899 to give up making Hang altogether... or worse still they pass away, what then?

There are a lot of what if's in this world and unfortunately we're never going to get an answer to a lot of them... like the mysterious question of what is the answer to the meaning of Life, the universe and everything.... i'm not happy with the answer of 42 (for anyone that knows the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy) but what else am i searching for... there is no point? you live you die, live with it? there is an afterlife and this is just the neccessary part to reach that garden of eden... or a simple NO you'll never know.... many things in life leave us wondering, unfortunately this a question that Google will not answer for anyone either.

Yeah, easy to say when you own a Hang, I know..... believe me, my fight to get a Hang was short lived but was full of hope... I cannot begin to imagine the pain some are going through with wanting something so bad and you can't have it, but if it were me... and I can say this in regards to many others things in life that i've wanted... there comes a time when yuo have to admit defeat and give up.

I wish everyone well with their individual lotteries... may your number come up

do not want to make money and then make a few?
Well there would be lots of people happy instead of doing a job like that!
and I am already thinking ill ...
is a magic tool? and developers are so really heavily spiritual enlightenment?
well, so why not reveal the secret to the world freely to build?
You also understand that this is not row together!
All their movements suggest, or a general disinterest towards interested parties, for an elite secret or other friends who may have them and others not etc etc ... or a business issue!, All that their actions, increases value and the mystery of the instrument .. (who knows a few years at that price can get, and will be produced ... FACTORY? orders because they had too ..)
and also say a guitar is beautiful and touches the strings of 'the beautiful soul ... But not owning one is prohibited, nor is the secret system to achieve them! yet some genius has invented the first!
is more is a good and committed the most will do sound good! This is how the artists!
seen from outside and after seeing that the Americans do the Spanish do, and now also in Italy! ... and also having seen what is actually true costs and produce .......!!
I truly believe you are a little too head-mounted
ends that will not take more PANART No one ever ... but all will Bellart - halo - Hapi or other ..
(At one point attempts to sound the same 'original!)
finally left in peace ... that beautiful pair of PANArt .. so tired ..
Thank God there are Chinese ..........
I make a better copy ...
Luce
Italy
ITALIANO:
non vogliono guadagnarci e quindi ne fanno pochi?
beh ci sarebbe tantissima gente invece contenta di fare un lavoro simile!!
e questo mi fa gia pensar male...
é uno strumento magico ? e gli ideatori sono cosi realmente pesantemente illuminati spiritualmente ??
benissimo e allora perchè non svelano liberamente al mondo il segreto per costruirlo?
capirete anche voi che tutto questo non fila assieme!
Tutte le loro mosse fanno pensare o, ad un disinteresse generale verso gli interessati, ad un elite segreta di amici o altro che puo averli e altri no ecc ecc...o ad una questione di business!!, tutto questo loro agire, accresce il valore e il mistero dello strumento..(che chissa tra qualche anno a che prezzo potra arrivare, e come sarà prodotto...in FABBRICA?? perchè avevano troppo ordinazioni..)
e che dire anche una chitarra è stupenda e tocca corde dell' anima bellissime... ma mica è vietato possederne una, e neppure è segreto il sistema per realizzarle! eppure un qualche primo genio l'ha ideata!
è piu uno è bravo e si impegna piu la fara suonare bene! cosi nascono gli artisti!
vista da fuori e dopo aver visto che gli americani lo fanno gli spagnoli lo fanno e ora anche in italia!... e avendo anche visto quanto realmente vale e costa produrlo.......!!
credo veramente si siano un po troppo montati la testa
finirà che il panart non lo prenderà piu nesuno... ma avranno tutti bellart - halo - Hapi o altri..
(ad un certo punto di tentativi suoneranno uguali all' originale !! )
lasciando finalmente in pace... quella bella coppia della PANArt.. tanto stanca..
meno male ci sono i cinesi..........
io mi prendo una bella copia...
Luca

Luce,

Your story is one that comes from a person who does not have the full information. Non e vero.
If you explore the history of PanArt you will realise the situation is quite different from what you think it is.
In brief (as I understand it to be):
They cannot make hanghang any faster or higher quantity than they do and keep integrity and quality.
They have tried to teach others to make them and it has not worked.
They don't mind if others try to copy them.
The hang is an incredibly difficult thing to try to copy.
They have very sincere hearts to find the best way to allocate far fewer hanghang than there are people who want them.

Every time I read posts like in this thread (and so many others like it elsewhere) I feel so glad that I have personally met Felix and Sabina and have had the opportunity to speak directly with them, ask lots of questions and discover for myself what the situation really is, what genuinely wonderful people they are and the admirable way they conduct themselves - had I not met them I might get confused or influenced by all the misinformation and stories that swirl around. And that would be unfortunate - and it is unfortunate that people get carried away with stories that just wouldn't happen if they had been able to visit Felix and Sabina.

It is also unfortunate that it is just not practical or realistic for Felix and Sabina to meet with everybody who is searching for answers, so unfortunately the stories will keep happening and probably many people will believe them.

That is sad.
Triste, triste, triste

I'm not saying they are bad people, for nothing! do not know them ... I like ..
I'm just saying if you really want to feel peaceful people who would like to have a hang .. it could do very well! this site on their site .. and so all understand how it works .. etc etc. ..
and the fact that I have tried to teach us a little bit .. there is magic and they are not ... percu hang as there are other Spanish etc. ... may be willing to reveal the secret ... but this does not matter is just ruins them ..! but as long as this great knowledge that is able to have one for himself, to become free and that it would come to know!
every instrument from flute to guitar to an accordion are difficult to do manually! and they are beautiful instruments .... but in the world anyone who desires it can have a ....... Why?? you say it was about? and how well did you do? How long ago?
you made in Bern without warning? have sent the letter? by phone? or through friends?
I say all this not with malice ... but I'm sorry there's all this ...
still have been very lucky!

There is a lot of information available through sites like the hangblog to give people guidance and that can answer a lot of your questions.

(I did the standard thing. I wrote a letter, waited for some time and then received a letter to offer me a hang, and made an appointment to go to the hanghaus.)

It's been a while since i checked the forum , just read some of the reply's to 2010 hang purchase , you guys sure are providing a good sound board to bounce ideas and opinions around ... keep it up i think the more the Hang players and lovers bond together and unite , the more chance we can understand this intoxicating instrument (tool for daily concentration ??) .
Yes i have received my third reply to my Hang letter and i must say i'm comforted to at least receive a reply , it said that they will not sell me a hang ....
And i believe the other details of the reply have been posted ... My intention is to accept , allow , and wait for some time , and then understand the best way to present myself in written form ... I do have access to 6 Hangs through my friends so i can always lay my hand on the Hang soundscape .
But as a lover of world music , i have not allowed the HangHaus refusal to stop my thirst for music and sound and i now own a 21 string Kora that used to belong to Mohamed Bangourake ... i am loving the intensity and freedom of this sound , that dates back centuries and in some time away i will apply again for a Hang , As i don't feel that they know the true person behind the letter yet ... peace to you all Craig c 2